I’ve had iPhone X since day one, and an iPhone user since version 3. I can honestly tell you that the notch doesn’t bother me. I don’t even notice it at all, even on landscape mode. Maybe to designers the idea of it is ugly, but in practice I’ve never once in a year thought “that notch is a bad idea and it made my experience worse”. I just forget about it.
And for the record I’m not a fanboy. I use Windows at home and boot camp my work laptop to windows as well because I hate MacOS. The iPhone is the only apple product I’ve owned and am open to switching to android if they ever gave me a compelling reason to switch, which they haven’t yet.
Yes, the notch introduced unfortunate design headaches, but it maximizes utility given current technology. I think if you took those pixels away, most existing iphone X users would object.
I also bought the iPhone X on day one, but I had to get rid of it, I really hated the notch. Also didn't like the aspect ratio of the display, it's getting way too vertical.
For me, it's like living in a room where one of the walls has a weird inset, which makes it more difficult to arrange the furniture.
Or like having a picture frame on the wall that is slightly crooked no matter how many times you try to fix it.
Or maybe it's like having a mole or birthmark, and calling it a beauty mark.
Sure you can live with it and just ignore it, but that wouldn't be my first choice.
However if you are willing to boot camp into Windows, you are probably less likely to care about a notch.
Lack of a home button is a selling point for me. FaceID feels like somewhat of a compromise because there're many ways in which it's inferior to TouchID, but the swipe gesture replacing the home button isn't a compromise at all--it's better. Swiping to dismiss feels faster and natural, and the swipe across the bottom to switch between apps feels way faster than double pressing the home button to summon the multitasker.
It is much easier to just press home button and current content will vanish from the screen. And physical buttons are way better when you are walking/running.
You can just swipe up from anywhere on the bottom of the screen, there's no on-screen target you need to hit, so it's just as easy to do it while walking/running/without looking. I do it while running all the time.
Could you elaborate on why you don't see compelling reasons to switch to Android? Seen from the other side and having to use an IPhone for work, I don't see compelling reasons to spend so much money for an Iphone. Especially considering that not even the basic features like collecting mails from an exchange server doesn't work properly...
I’m an iPhone user, my wife swears on Android. But usually, I set up her phone. The amount of BS Android asks you to consent plus the privacy-neglecting default options are reasons enough.
In addition, in my opinion everything on Android and the devices feels half-baked. Fingerprint sensor? Easy to fool. Face ID thing? Can be fooled with a photo. Sure, the devices cost half of an iPhone, but feature-wise they’re often not as carefully designed.
Wow is that a textured 3D mask of the target's face complete with 2D infrared images of their eyes?! If that what it takes to fool Apple's face scan I'm seriously impressed.
> it's worth noting that fooling Face ID in this way requires a 3D printer, several hundred dollars worth of materials, physical access to a person's iPhone X, and detailed facial photographs that can be used to reconstruct a person's face. Even then, if the 3D printed mask and the design of the infrared eyes aren't perfect, Face ID will fail after five attempts.
Besides the fact that you shouldn't use your fingerprint as an password and that the face ID has been tricked already, I'm not sure what exactly your issue with privacy consent is. You can set the privacy settings individually and if you don't like what an app wants from you, there are always a lot of alternatives and most of them are free. There are also alternative stores like F-Droid. Maybe you should play around with it a little bit more to learn about the possibilities. They excel those of the Iphone by far.
One of the primary reasons I switched to the iPhone years ago was exactly what you’re describing.
I don’t want to have to configure settings on a micro level per-app. I want sane defaults that respect my privacy at the app level, all the way down to the OS layer. Paired with the Play Store with a much lower barrier to app acceptance, this has proven to be a danger to peoples’ privacy if they aren’t vigilant to vet and check settings of each new app they install.
That being just privacy, I was also tired of micromanaging every setting on my phone. I don’t care to have custom UI widgets, root-level modifications, or especially installing a completely new OS. I know as a software developer these things should be more acceptable, or fun even, but my phone is such a critical piece of my day-to-day, I’d rather pay a premium (to a degree.. looking at you XS Max) for the peace of mind that everything will Just Work every time. I’ve yet to have any real problems with any iPhone I’ve owned.. Android was a different story.
You could have just installed F-Droid and use the apps from there...I mean, I don't see how "taking away features" is a reason FOR a product.
I understand that critical aspect but being faced with an IPhone that is unable to sync mails from the exchange server for several OS versions already is what I'd consider a critical issue and problem. I never had anything like that with the Android or other relevant "not working" issues. I have no idea what people do with their phones to really "break" it.
Edit: I still wonder how people who intentionally switched away from Android take the missing back-button and the continues search for the function within the apps. It's either right or left, called differently every time. Sometimes it's not even there...
> I understand that critical aspect but being faced with an IPhone that is unable to sync mails from the exchange server for several OS versions already is what I'd consider a critical issue and problem.
Can you clarify this a bit? I don't really understand the problem - I have an Exchange server synced on my iPhone and there are no problems.
> Can you clarify this a bit? I don't really understand the problem - I have an Exchange server synced on my iPhone and there are no problems.
The native email app does not sync mails that are being filtered into folders properly. Or let's say: it sometimes does it, sometimes it does not. I just lost any trust into it and drag down every folder to be sure that there isn't a new mail in there. It's a pain. I asked around on the forums and reddit and even though the issue is not new, nobody could help me out. Some pointed out that it surely is an issue with the server but it works flawlessly with the Windows Phone and Android.
1. I think it makes a difference if Face ID can only be tricked with a professionally created mask vs a photo my neighbor took to unlock a phone. It might not make that much difference in the real world, but I like to use a product that was well-thought through instead of a copycat gimmick.
2. While Android indeed now gives you okayish controls over privacy settings, this wasn’t the case for many years. In addition, if you set up your device, just count how often you have to tap no/disable/deny vs on iOS. After the third pop up, most people don’t care anymore. Even the damn keyboard calls home.
In case of Samsung, you sometimes can’t use specific features if you don’t agree to everything. Huawei is similar.
3. I don’t trust free apps that have no reasonable pricing model. Because they still have to make money (same is true for iOS apps).
Look, I don’t want to convince anyone. I say: Android gives me an odd feeling whereas iOS doesn’t so much (although I don’t use iCloud files or photos).
1) Sure it depends on where your priorities are. If you really need that security, you probably just won't use either the finger printer nor the FaceID and just type a password. But let's be honest here: the feature is being liked/used as a fast login bypass rather then for security reasons. I don't use it at all. Neither on the IPhone nor on my private Android.
2) Well yeah, many years ago many thing where crap. I don't understand your count excample. I have to tap is as many times as I want/many apps I have. You have to do the same for iOS for the few options you get there.
3) I don't know about Samsung or Huawei because I don't have one. I can buy my hardware from a producer I trust or like.
Did you ever ask yourself where that "odd feeling" actually come from? Because complaining about "too many options" (same done above by a different commenter) seems quite odd to me.
iOS has worked with Exchange servers since 2009-2010.
But a reason to have an iPhone? If you bought an iPhone 5S when it was released in September 2012, and you still own it, you can download iOS 12 next week.
How many Android phones from even two years ago are still getting OS updates?
Well, obviously not or I wouldn't have problems...
So anectodally, you have problems but there hasn’t been any wide spread report of Exchange issues on iOS for almost a decade. It couldn’t possible be an issue with your server could it?
Which would be the first one to get five updates. Everything before that, didn't.
(correction the 5s was released in 2013)
iPhone 5 - released in 2012, last update July 2017
iPhone 4s - released on September 2011 - last update August 2016.
iPhone 4 - released on June 2010 -
Last update June 2014
iPhone 3GS - released June 2009 - last update Feb 2014
I don't know. There are too many. You know, that thing with having a choice and so on.
If you want an Android phone that gets regularly updates after two to three years, there are no choices...
> So anectodally, you have problems but there hasn’t been any wide spread report of Exchange issues on iOS for almost a decade. It couldn’t possible be an issue with your server could it?
"Anecdotally" Everyone I know and works with me as well as several google results point to the same issue. Anecdotally using the same server with a Windows Phone and Android Phone causes no issues at all. Sooo maaaybe it's not the server?
> years stapeling
Am I supposed to know how many updates there were between those years automatically or how is that related to what I wrote?
> If you want an Android phone that gets regularly updates after two to three years, there are no choices...
Sure there are. You can take the google brands, motorola or I don't know, just put your own OS on it. Or if you are the usual consumer who just wants to have a new phone every x-years you can just buy two for the price of one IPhone. So many possibilities....
Anecdotally" Everyone I know and works with me as well as several google results point to the same issue.
What are the Google results of issues. “Everyone you know” is anecdotal....
Am I supposed to know how many updates there were between those years automatically or how is that related to what I wrote?
Well first, seeing that both Apple and Google have released major updates every year since they have developed mobile phone OSs. It’s not too hard to figure out.
Sure there are. You can take the google brands,Motorola
No Google brands have usually had updates for two years tops.
or I don't know, just put your own OS on it.
See how well that works in practice....
Or if you are the usual consumer who just wants to have a new phone every x-years you can just buy two for the price of one IPhone. So many possibilities....
Since an iPhone actually maintains somewhat of a resale value, you still don’t come out ahead by buying a phone every two years. Consumers are holding on to phones longer now that they aren’t being subsidized by the carrier.
> What are the Google results of issues. “Everyone you know” is anecdotal....
Good you cut "and work with" and the part with the other OS out otherwise this discussion might get serious and we don't want that do we?
See, that is another issue. I've been asking around on boards for how to solve the issue since it's so annoying. Either I got no answer or it was something along your lines "It must be your fault because Apple wouldn't make such a mistake". Meanwhile having an issue on Android means that you either already find the solution or you post on one of the dev boards where people are eager to find a solution. Or you just use another app because there is no obnoxious system mail app in it's ridiculous locked in environment.
It works out fantastic I did that on every phone I had and have been doing it for friends and family.
> Since an iPhone actually maintains somewhat of a resale value,
Well as you are reselling already to an audience that is used to overpaying, it doesn't say anything about the actual value. Besides that, if you end up with one of the non supported ones, there is no way to put a different OS on it or is it?
> Consumers are holding on to phones longer now that they aren’t being subsidized by the carrier.
No idea where you're from but over here in Europe carriers still give you phones and the phone market is not dead or something like that. People buy new phones and even if they wouldn't, it wouldn't change anything about the argument I brought up.
So now that you even dropped that selective quoting you stopped refusing to accept that there MIGHT be an issue (even though it's supported since 2009!), you are interested what the actual issue is? Seriously? Try looking up. I've explained it where I had hope for some reasonable answers and please spare me your further opinions. This is not how communication works. eod
And you still haven’t said what the issues are. If you are having random issues with built in Mail client, are you having those same issues with the Outlook app for iOS?
While I don't deny that your problem with Exchange is a pain exacerbated by some restrictions in iOS (like default mail app is the one Apple provides), you have totally and utterly failed to provide anything on the updates part while scarface74 provided facts on that very point that can be verified independently. "I don't know. There are too many" and "Sure there are" aren't answers that can be fact checked and verified. This sounds dubious for someone who claims not to use biometrics for unlocking (which, I agree, is a better security practice than using biometrics).
Perhaps you always keep flashing your device with some random OS fork or build and that hasn't allowed you to observe what others who aren't as savvy as you have to put up with (I get that you could use this exact sentence back in pointing out what you see as deficiencies in iOS, but let's not move the goal posts).
So you really think I have one account that’s been posting since 2013 and another account that’s been posting since 2015 and that they have both been posting prolifically just to have someone agree with me?
But as far as the issue. Did you reach out to Microsoft? Did you download the Outlook app for iOS? Or would you rather just complain?
Wow, you seem just like another friendly and helpful Apple Fan. Of course I love to complain! Thanks for your unique input and no I don't seriously think your are his second account, I wrote that to emphasise my argument that followed this and which you left out. EOD...
Note to myself: never mention Apple again on hn
Edit: wow ninja-downvote within 1 minute! Have you been reloading your comment page for the last hour?
Oh I see...it's the other guy again...no surprise there.
I started being uncivil after they started being uncivil. Why is it me that is to blame here? I mean, they seem to be so agitated that they are downvoting me 3 days later!
> you insinuated that other users were astroturfing
I might have missed it where people started being uncivil to you first. We don't see all the comments. But it also doesn't make breaking the rules ok—even if others break them, you (i.e. we all) still have to follow them. It always feels like the other person started it, and did worse.
Re astroturfing I was referring to "Are you his second account".
> I might have missed it where people started being uncivil to you first. We don't see all the comments.
I...what? You can't click "parent" and get a context? Or come here with a different account/firefox container? What sense does that make? This is ridiculous. I mean, it's right there...
I never said the rules are bad. There is nothing wrong with the rules. There is just something wrong if they are being enforced selectively.
> Re astroturfing I was referring to "Are you his second account".
You might read up what astroturfing is. Because this is not how it works:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing
Besides the fact that I even explained that I said that to emphasize my argument that followed it.
Would you please read the whole thing before you judge? I mean, seriously this doesn't make any sense this way.
Mostly because any android phone worth buying (apart for from Nokia or Samsung) is basically an iPhone X clone, notch and all, without the ecosystem and software support provided by Apple to ensure that the notch works. Any sort of software support for the notch landed in Android 9. How many phones with the notch have that version? Absolutely zero.
And unlike iPhone, no Android phone has any justifiable reason for the notch.
> without the ecosystem and software support provided by Apple to ensure that the notch works
Well don't know about the "notch" but the immense ecosystem around Android is so far beyond what Apple has that I wouldn't even know where to start. The stupidity of some manufactures to copy that design failure is a different topic but it's defiantly nothing to be proud of. Neither on the Android nor on the Apple side. Mine doesn't have one and I wouldn't buy one because it's just ridiculous...
Yeah. Apart from nokia 8/7 and samsung note9 and s9, every current and upcoming phone (oneplus, pixel, huawei, xaomi, etc.) have the notch.
> Mine doesn't have one and I wouldn't buy one because it's just ridiculous
Manufacturers won't give you an option in the future and the android software support will be flaky at best. Atleast Apple tries to ensure that you have the best possible experience with its design choices. No one in the android ecosystem gives a damn about your experience.
> Yeah. Apart from nokia 8/7 and samsung note9 and s9, every current and upcoming phone (oneplus, pixel, huawei, xaomi, etc.) have the notch.
I was questioning the quoted statement.
> Manufacturers won't give you an option in the future
I'm not sure if you really believe that or if you have no idea how big the Android market is. Adding to your exemptions list there is also LG (just one has it), Pixel of course and there is just one Motorola who has it. And those are the brands that came into my mind. I don't even go into the endless others out there on this planet. It looks like a list with models who have it would have been shorter.
Are you suggesting that non-standard shaping of screens is a good thing or a bad thing?
I personally think it's a bad thing, unless you have a specific use case in mind. For 99.99% of use cases, rectangular screens are a pretty good choice.
I don't think GP is suggesting either, rather that non-rectangular screens are _a thing that happens_ and many are not prepared to deal with it because they didn't think of it. In the same vein of the "Falsehood programmers believe about x" articles.
But at the same time, just about every software engineering decision has a long tail of oddball edge cases. You could use any of these to justify a new "Falsehoods Programmers Believe About X" principle, but for many of them it's (in my opinion) vacuous to bother because it's either unnecessary to deal with it or it's legitimately strange and exceptionally suboptimal for the client to be designed that way.
For example, I don't really have a problem with the way Youtube presents itself on the iPhone X screen in landscape mode. It's not perfect, but nothing is actually breaking. There is some unused screen real estate. There isn't so much a falsehood here as an aversion to a more sophisticated screen filling methodology. If someone were to view YouTube in a screen shaped like a circle, the YouTube developers would have a strong argument that's not a fact of life but an oddball thing to do, and consequently not support it.
Conversely there are legitimate consequences if you make false assumptions about e.g. foreign language encodings, email validation, characters present in human names, etc. These are domains with edge cases that have a huge number of unknown unknowns due to very culturally significant and non-dismissable reasons. You also can't really skimp out on designing for them because doing so could completely break functionality or introduce security vulnerabilities.
It'll be interesting to see if Apple ever make a circular Apple Watch. I can see a scenario where the strap even incorporates some flexible screen which would be utilised for additional status and content.
Or, don't design around gimmicks and fads. The "falseholds programmers belive" are overblown, usually non-issues, and frankly probably aren't worth the development time to support.
While the phone may look beautiful to a lot of people, that notch is horrible to design a UI around. Even the screenshots in the article look terrible after the suggested adjustments. I really hope the notch eventually goes away.
It will inevitably disappear in time. Once we have the necessary technology to have these sensors work reliably below the display layer, that will be done.
I am more concerned about the non-functional but (to me, at least) similarly bothersome design quirk of these iPhones and some other modern phones: rounded corners that mask the display edges. I worry rounded corners may not disappear any time soon because there's little technical reason for them to exist; the rounded corners are aesthetic. For me, I prefer the appearance of phones with shorter corner radii—sharper lines—such as the Razer. But the popular preference for large-radii corners is undeniable (e.g., Twitter's conversion from square to circular avatars).
I just want a plain rectangular display, thank you.
When Apple finally revealed the first image of the new iPhone during their event, the background on the phones didn’t reveal the notch at all, so I thought they’d done away with it. I wonder if it was on purpose.
It is an odd design choice on Apple's behalf to make the sides of the notch usable/drawable. With an OLED screen you can easily black them in such a way so they "disappear" in horizontal. Keep them for OS status in vertical orientation.
Matching rgba() to the hardware around it is a very interesting take!
Isn't the notch in landscape mode similar to how we used to have these feedback buttons on the left or right of the screen with absolute positioning? Uservoice and GetSatisfaction come to mind.
True at some point that will happen, but not in the foreseeable future. Web developers also need to take in account that there are large rounded corners cut out on the screen which will most likely remain even when the notch finally goes away.
The WebKit folks had a great blog post on how to do all of this and use the new env variable in CSS. It was proprietary back then, but I believe it's on the standards track now Android is copying the notch.
What features has Apple removed shortly after introducing them? Historically Apple has stuck with its changes, even when they are accompanied by negative feedback.
It's not on one new model (the iPhone XR). The iPhone XS and XS Max still have it. However, they were already selling a phone without it - the iPhone SE; the iPhone XR is designed to be the new "cheap" option. No net change in the number of new iPhone options without it.
> Didn't last very long at all.
They introduced it with iPhone 6S, so even if it's not on a single model next year (which is doubtful), it would have been a 4+ year feature
The concept of a “safe area” is here to stay. It does not only apply to the notch, but also applies to rendering underneath the iOS “home button” or the translucent toolbar.
It only bothers me in the aspect ratio that takes the full screen, which is rare. Otherwise, I think iPhone X design looks better than iPhone 8. Some websites do need this fix.
I sense that the newly announced iPhones have a smaller notch compared to the iPhone X. If that is true then we can assume that Apple is working on reducing the notch height to a point where it goes seamless with the frame and then we'll have the entire glass surface to play on.
The notch is pretty awful when watching full-screen content in landscape orientation indeed. And no way to get around it in most software. Less annoying but still a distortion are the rounded corners. There should be an option while watching media to simply fill the screen without clipping.
Does Samsung have similar ways to help you prevent displaying content on the distorted sides of an Edge screen?
The iPhone XS has a screen aspect ratio of 19.5:9 so most 16:9 content should be easily viewable with pillar boxing (black bars on the sides) and make the notch "disappear".
I'm fairly sure that this is the default and only if you double tap on the video to zoom in would it then fill the screen and make the notch noticeable.
> Here’s a simple fix to use all the extra space. To tell the browser to expand into the display cutout (notched) area, set the viewport-fit property to cover like so...
This honestly looks worse than having white margins in my opinion. While the white margins aren't ideal, they are still a better visual solution than fully extending the page to the left and right. Content should be given enough space as to not visually interact with the rounded corners, otherwise it reflects poorly on the site designer, as if they didn't account for it. So, forcing the page within the confines of the non-rounded area is a better global solution that offers better visual consistency. That said, I think either a blacking out the margin would be more visually appealing and not draw as much attention to the actual notch area, but forcing margins by default is the right call.
Not all websites are built the same, some might require more than just five lines of CSS. Add to that QA to make sure it works. And purchasing the device(s) to test that it really looks fine (plus setting up remote debugging if it needs adjustments) or writing something to replicate the notch behavior. It's one more thing to support in already many things we have to think about when doing web development (different browsers, OS, screen sizes, orientation, available features, ... and now the notch).
Apple could have used the space around the notch for some browser UI for example and spared us the extra effort to make our websites look good (or even be functional) with that notch. At the end of the day, it's their customers that are benefiting from a good/better browsing experience.
Not to mention the development time they forced Google to waste when they implemented the feature on the new Pixel. (Plus LG, Essential, OnePlus, ....)
Are you saying Apple is responsible for the time that takes to copy their design? That is certainly an interesting take.
Also maybe there's an argument to be made about this being time invested in a feature (notch support that the OEMs were already implementing) rather than wasted.
And for the record I’m not a fanboy. I use Windows at home and boot camp my work laptop to windows as well because I hate MacOS. The iPhone is the only apple product I’ve owned and am open to switching to android if they ever gave me a compelling reason to switch, which they haven’t yet.